KRIS NORMAN: Thanks for having me, Nina.
NINA MOINI: I’m so glad that we have some of your time today, because in the past month or so, we’ve heard a lot about freezes and potential losses. And I think people at home might just be wondering, what does this mean for the on-the-ground services that people are providing to me and my neighbors? So we’re thankful to have you here.
The news that’s come out of President Trump’s first month has really forced us to look at these relationships between nonprofits, education, research facilities. How much do you think the average American knows about those relationships?
KRIS NORMAN: I don’t think they know a lot. I think there are a lot of things that government does that we take for granted because we don’t see them, necessarily, in our everyday lives until something goes wrong. So there’s lots of things going on– public servants are doing every day to make our lives and communities better that we just sort of take for granted.
NINA MOINI: Right. So it seems like cuts to funding or layoffs in the federal government cause sort of a domino effect that could trickle down to states, different nonprofits. Could you give me an example of what that could look like?
KRIS NORMAN: Sure. So a lot of programs that come out of the federal government come down to the state. And then the state contracts with nonprofit organizations to actually deliver some of those services. So, for example, one of the things that has gotten a lot of attention is Medicaid funding. So the state receives something like $11 billion in Medicaid funding from the federal government.
It runs through the Department of Human Services. And then the Department of Human Services will reimburse local clinics, doctors, facilities for people who are on Medicare, which are often our most vulnerable populations. So if that funding dries up, then those providers aren’t being reimbursed, and those services go away, which, in some cases, can be actually life threatening.
NINA MOINI: Right. And when you say go away, it’s the timeline around some of these actions that I have trouble understanding. So say grant funding is frozen. Does that mean that all work immediately stops for whatever that grant was trying to pay for? Or what does that look like? Somebody gets the news, hey, your grant funding is frozen.
KRIS NORMAN: Usually it will mean immediately things end because they are relying on that funding to pay for the positions. There are several positions in many Minnesota state agencies that are paid through federal grants. About half of the Department of Education employees are paid through federal grants– many in the Department of Human Services.
If that funding goes away, then there’s nothing to pay their salaries. There’s nothing to pay out to the nonprofit organizations that might be helping to provide those services. And it actually stops immediately, unless there’s any sort of balance left from funds they’ve already received. And once that’s gone, then it’s done.
NINA MOINI: Yeah, and you mentioned nonprofits. And I was surprised to learn that nonprofits make up somewhere around 13% of the state’s workforce. So then those people’s lives are also disrupted, which could impact the economy and how they’re going about their lives. Where else does that trickle into?
KRIS NORMAN: Yeah, absolutely. Those people that work in the nonprofits who are doing the work related to grants that they’re receiving from the federal government or the state government directly, so it means that, yes, their positions are lost. That means their mortgages aren’t getting paid. That means they’re not having income to pay for the necessities in life.
And then the people that they’re serving also are suffering. A lot of these places provide daily food or emergency shelter or safe shelter for victims of domestic abuse, those kinds of things. So it’s not a small impact. And a lot of times, it’s affecting the most vulnerable among us, but then just people’s everyday lives when suddenly you don’t have an income to pay for your general expenses.
NINA MOINI: Right. And these nonprofits generally who are seeing losses in funding, what do you think their next steps are? What can they do so that they don’t just have to totally shut their doors? How could they go about trying to stay afloat?
KRIS NORMAN: It’s actually really difficult. The state of Minnesota has a constitutional requirement to pass a balanced budget. So the state of Minnesota can’t suddenly come up with funds to try to replace the federal dollars that have been lost. And fundraising for the kinds of money that nonprofits are getting through those grants is really not realistic, either. So if those federal dollars dry up, there is really not a whole lot that those organizations can do to continue operating.
NINA MOINI: Can you talk a little bit, too, please, just about how public and private universities, educational institutions that rely on some federal government funding to kind of run some of their programs, what are you hearing in terms of concerns there?
KRIS NORMAN: Absolutely. So a lot of our students receive financial aid that comes through the federal government, through Pell grants or subsidized student loans or other programs designed to actually support different parts of the educational system.
Some research universities, like the University of Minnesota, receive lots of research grants where they are really working on innovative things that help make our lives better. And if that money goes away, as well, then that research stops. Fewer students have access to education. And it just becomes a continuing spiral.
NINA MOINI: I’m curious, as a professor, how you are keeping up with all that’s going on right now regarding these different relationships between federal and state and different agencies. And as you’re standing before a classroom, how are you tackling keeping up with this and explaining all of it to your students?
NINA MOINI: Yeah, we are talking about it a lot. Right now I’m teaching a class in public policy analysis for my doctoral students, and another one on the scope and dynamics of public administration for my master’s students. And these things are affecting their lives every day. And so we are talking about the kinds of things that they’re facing in their work, the potential challenges that may be coming, and also just kind of doing some support of each other as everyone is just feeling a little frightened and anxious right now.
NINA MOINI: Yeah. Well, professor, I really appreciate you coming on with us today and sharing, just helping to break this all down for us. We hope that you’ll come back in the future.
KRIS NORMAN: I’d love to. Thanks, Nina.
NINA MOINI: Thank you. That was Hamline University public administration professor, Kris Norman.
